A great company that’s based in Boston, Nurture by Naps, runs an amazing Dad support group alongside their options for Moms. The facilitator is pretty great, and happens to be my husband! And it’s virtual, so Dads can join from anywhere!
I just had a chance to read this article and it was fantastic, Dylan. I'm going to share it on LinkedIn this morning. Very different comment thread there than here - some guys just don't get it. Evidence of a generational/culture shift on this issue, in my opinion.
Great article, and it reminds me of the book "Bowling Alone" by Robert Putnam. In short: people don't join groups and clubs like they used to a generation ago, and we're all the poorer for it as a culture.
Men were never meant to be separate from eachother. Through work, commerce, religious fellowship, etc. we have always connected and rubbed shoulders, building bonds within our lifestyles and connecting with the experiences of those men.
But... Society started demonizing us being men, and so over the decades, many of us have started shutting ourselves in, focusing on the work, focusing on the family, and separating ourselves from meaningful bonds with other men. It's been such a steady spread.
I read the comments on the article and wasn't too surprised to find that a number of men (obviously with plenty of time to kill online in comment sections) are on there virtue signaling their loneliness and perpetuating the lone wolf mindset. It's a bad coping mechanism.
Our "groups" don't have to be hours long therapy and crying sessions. It can look like 5 dads showing up at a shooting range for a couple hours to kill time and paper, and stopping for BBQ on the way home, and share family victories and stories on the way home.
It's not rocket science... but it takes time and humility. Many men hate humility.
Dylan, thank you for putting the time into this article. It's important stuff.
Thanks so much Cole, glad to be able to add your perspective in this.
Yeah, the comments were telling - so many guys out there thinking that self-isolation is a stand in for masculinity. Much further to go, but I hope this sort of thing can help break the ice, if even just a little bit.
Congrats on the byline! My monthly dad group is more diverse in age, and I hope it has been very helpful to all of us. I love it. We've discussed a range of things from young-children challenges to what it's like taking care of parents who are developing dementia and the joys of making our first old man appointments with a urologist. Good natured harassment flows freely, as does heartfelt experience and advice. The invite goes out to about 20 guys, we pick a night, and about 10 show up, but it's not always the same 10. I'm not sure how I survived without it and I do what it takes to keep it going.
Thanks sir! You know, the piece has picked up a few comments from the ‘real men don’t need help’ crowd. I can’t help but wonder if they spent some time with a group like yours if they would change their minds.
"The problem wasn’t their character. It was timing. None of them had recently had a baby the way I had, which meant the conversations often felt a step removed from the stage I was actually living. "
I think this here is a big part of the problem because it effectively is starting with an ego-centric and instrumental view of community, "what can I get out of it immediately".
Now, don't get me wrong, I think this is a nearly universal view among men not something idiosyncratic to Dylan. And, to bring up as (Dorota Talalay recently quipped) the group that has parenting discourse in a permanent choke-hold -- hunter-gatherers -- when we lived in a groups of 50-75 people do we really think men only hung out with the other men who happened to have had a kid in the last ~3 months? So, like 1 person?
At the risk of seemingly like I'm hating on Dylan -- I'm not! I think he's just doing what most of us do, including myself -- also note there was zero interest by Dylan in joining a dad community until already pregnant, or possibly even after the baby was born. Again, this is a pretty universal thing and there are some structural factors around it. But it also points to how transactional and instrumental modern people view community. So of course it is going to be hard to build a group of friends when that's the starting point.
I was on the governing council of my kids's kindy (translation to American-English: on the PTA of the government-run preschool) and I was the only man. I'm now on the governing council at the public grade school and it is at least 50% men, maybe 60-70%. I'm not quite sure why, at least in our neighborhood, men seem much more likely to engage at this age level. Maybe the preschool age is still seen as "mom's territory"?
But joining the governing council meant I immediately knew three other men in our neighborhood.
I think one of the weaknesses of "groups", especially when organised on the internet, is they can lack that proximal nature. If someone doesn't live within 5 kilometres or so, it is hard to ever see them enough to get beyond the "acquaintance" stage to "friends". I read somewhere that it takes a fairly fixed amount of hours to make that transition. It's why we make friends seemingly so easily in uni (American: college) because we're around them 10+ hours a day. We can hit that threshhold in a few weeks. A dad's group that meets once a month is going to take years to reach that same threshold.
We moved to a new city a year and a half ago and that's precisely the dynamic I've seen with the men I've met through friends-of-friends. They don't actually live that close to me. So we might meet up for a beer or a coffee every 6 weeks or whatever. But it's been a year and still none of them are really at the level of "shit, can you watch my kids for four hours because suddenly..."
yesterday, and it stirred me to go looking to see if there's a dad-to-be group at our local hospital networks (we have two in the Allentown area).
It so happens there is! It's called Boot Camp for Dads. I reach out to the facilitator to ask about volunteering. I shared that my adventure into parenthood was a miscarriage, then three births all within 3 years. The first two were 14 months apart in age. But that miscarriage almost threw me over the cliff. I had no idea how to navigate that with my bride of three years back then (we married in 1995). Knowing the gap of support for new dads is pretty large, I felt drawn to finding something to plug into so I can help.
Your story popped up today and reinforced my drive to find one or two groups to help out with. I know I'm not in the same season as them, but sometimes that older, fatigued dad has some nuggets to potentially save them from unnecessary pain. Plus, it's fun to hear all their in-the-trenches stories.
Thanks for carving out the time to write this piece.
Hey Bill, that’s amazing stuff, thank you for doing that. While I think a lot of people tend to view parent groups as a bunch of people of the same background going through it together, having people who have already been there can be a major resource. Keep on the good work there, let me know how it goes!
A great company that’s based in Boston, Nurture by Naps, runs an amazing Dad support group alongside their options for Moms. The facilitator is pretty great, and happens to be my husband! And it’s virtual, so Dads can join from anywhere!
Started reading about Jack and having an out of body experience and then remembered our conversation. Great to see the full piece!
Sounded oddly familiar, right? Seriously though, thank you so much for helping out, it really brought the piece together.
Happy to help
Right here!
I just had a chance to read this article and it was fantastic, Dylan. I'm going to share it on LinkedIn this morning. Very different comment thread there than here - some guys just don't get it. Evidence of a generational/culture shift on this issue, in my opinion.
Thanks so much! Yeah, some of the older guys out there definitely seemed committed to going it alone.
Congratulations, Dylan—very much deserved!
Thanks so much, Erin, I deeply appreciate all of the support you’ve sent my way over the past year!
Great article, and it reminds me of the book "Bowling Alone" by Robert Putnam. In short: people don't join groups and clubs like they used to a generation ago, and we're all the poorer for it as a culture.
Thanks Michael, I really appreciate it. Bowling Alone seems to get more and more relevant every year, it’s uncanny.
Men were never meant to be separate from eachother. Through work, commerce, religious fellowship, etc. we have always connected and rubbed shoulders, building bonds within our lifestyles and connecting with the experiences of those men.
But... Society started demonizing us being men, and so over the decades, many of us have started shutting ourselves in, focusing on the work, focusing on the family, and separating ourselves from meaningful bonds with other men. It's been such a steady spread.
I read the comments on the article and wasn't too surprised to find that a number of men (obviously with plenty of time to kill online in comment sections) are on there virtue signaling their loneliness and perpetuating the lone wolf mindset. It's a bad coping mechanism.
Our "groups" don't have to be hours long therapy and crying sessions. It can look like 5 dads showing up at a shooting range for a couple hours to kill time and paper, and stopping for BBQ on the way home, and share family victories and stories on the way home.
It's not rocket science... but it takes time and humility. Many men hate humility.
Dylan, thank you for putting the time into this article. It's important stuff.
Thanks so much Cole, glad to be able to add your perspective in this.
Yeah, the comments were telling - so many guys out there thinking that self-isolation is a stand in for masculinity. Much further to go, but I hope this sort of thing can help break the ice, if even just a little bit.
Congrats on the byline! My monthly dad group is more diverse in age, and I hope it has been very helpful to all of us. I love it. We've discussed a range of things from young-children challenges to what it's like taking care of parents who are developing dementia and the joys of making our first old man appointments with a urologist. Good natured harassment flows freely, as does heartfelt experience and advice. The invite goes out to about 20 guys, we pick a night, and about 10 show up, but it's not always the same 10. I'm not sure how I survived without it and I do what it takes to keep it going.
Thanks sir! You know, the piece has picked up a few comments from the ‘real men don’t need help’ crowd. I can’t help but wonder if they spent some time with a group like yours if they would change their minds.
"The problem wasn’t their character. It was timing. None of them had recently had a baby the way I had, which meant the conversations often felt a step removed from the stage I was actually living. "
I think this here is a big part of the problem because it effectively is starting with an ego-centric and instrumental view of community, "what can I get out of it immediately".
Now, don't get me wrong, I think this is a nearly universal view among men not something idiosyncratic to Dylan. And, to bring up as (Dorota Talalay recently quipped) the group that has parenting discourse in a permanent choke-hold -- hunter-gatherers -- when we lived in a groups of 50-75 people do we really think men only hung out with the other men who happened to have had a kid in the last ~3 months? So, like 1 person?
At the risk of seemingly like I'm hating on Dylan -- I'm not! I think he's just doing what most of us do, including myself -- also note there was zero interest by Dylan in joining a dad community until already pregnant, or possibly even after the baby was born. Again, this is a pretty universal thing and there are some structural factors around it. But it also points to how transactional and instrumental modern people view community. So of course it is going to be hard to build a group of friends when that's the starting point.
I was on the governing council of my kids's kindy (translation to American-English: on the PTA of the government-run preschool) and I was the only man. I'm now on the governing council at the public grade school and it is at least 50% men, maybe 60-70%. I'm not quite sure why, at least in our neighborhood, men seem much more likely to engage at this age level. Maybe the preschool age is still seen as "mom's territory"?
But joining the governing council meant I immediately knew three other men in our neighborhood.
I think one of the weaknesses of "groups", especially when organised on the internet, is they can lack that proximal nature. If someone doesn't live within 5 kilometres or so, it is hard to ever see them enough to get beyond the "acquaintance" stage to "friends". I read somewhere that it takes a fairly fixed amount of hours to make that transition. It's why we make friends seemingly so easily in uni (American: college) because we're around them 10+ hours a day. We can hit that threshhold in a few weeks. A dad's group that meets once a month is going to take years to reach that same threshold.
We moved to a new city a year and a half ago and that's precisely the dynamic I've seen with the men I've met through friends-of-friends. They don't actually live that close to me. So we might meet up for a beer or a coffee every 6 weeks or whatever. But it's been a year and still none of them are really at the level of "shit, can you watch my kids for four hours because suddenly..."
Hey Dylan,
I happened to hit this article...
https://www.everydayinterpreter.com/p/dad-strength
yesterday, and it stirred me to go looking to see if there's a dad-to-be group at our local hospital networks (we have two in the Allentown area).
It so happens there is! It's called Boot Camp for Dads. I reach out to the facilitator to ask about volunteering. I shared that my adventure into parenthood was a miscarriage, then three births all within 3 years. The first two were 14 months apart in age. But that miscarriage almost threw me over the cliff. I had no idea how to navigate that with my bride of three years back then (we married in 1995). Knowing the gap of support for new dads is pretty large, I felt drawn to finding something to plug into so I can help.
https://www.lvhn.org/news/lvhn-now-offering-workshop-new-expectant-fathers
Your story popped up today and reinforced my drive to find one or two groups to help out with. I know I'm not in the same season as them, but sometimes that older, fatigued dad has some nuggets to potentially save them from unnecessary pain. Plus, it's fun to hear all their in-the-trenches stories.
Thanks for carving out the time to write this piece.
Hey Bill, that’s amazing stuff, thank you for doing that. While I think a lot of people tend to view parent groups as a bunch of people of the same background going through it together, having people who have already been there can be a major resource. Keep on the good work there, let me know how it goes!